Forum:Village pump: Difference between revisions

moving a bunch of old convos to an archive, feel free to start new ones to continue where any of these left off
 
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:I plan to make a glossary page for the BTD series, like the one for BCS. I think we can include it there, defining it as a general term used in descriptive text for how effective the subject is at popping bloons, and that it can mean a multitude of things (damage, pierce, projectile count, etc) depending on the case.
:I plan to make a glossary page for the BTD series, like the one for BCS. I think we can include it there, defining it as a general term used in descriptive text for how effective the subject is at popping bloons, and that it can mean a multitude of things (damage, pierce, projectile count, etc) depending on the case.
:Popping power is ''technically'' a mechanic in the multiplatform versions of BTD5/BTDB/BMC. Since projectiles and AOEs are separate classes of entities in those games, "popping power" is the internal name for a stat modifier that affects the pierce of both projectiles and AOEs (since projectiles have "numPersists" and AOEs have "maxTargets" instead of a shared pierce stat). But that's only internal terminology and doesn't reflect how the term actually gets used in the games' descriptive text, so I think we can disregard it or leave it as a footnote. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 07:52, 29 May 2026 (UTC)
:Popping power is ''technically'' a mechanic in the multiplatform versions of BTD5/BTDB/BMC. Since projectiles and AOEs are separate classes of entities in those games, "popping power" is the internal name for a stat modifier that affects the pierce of both projectiles and AOEs (since projectiles have "numPersists" and AOEs have "maxTargets" instead of a shared pierce stat). But that's only internal terminology and doesn't reflect how the term actually gets used in the games' descriptive text, so I think we can disregard it or leave it as a footnote. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 07:52, 29 May 2026 (UTC)
== Organizing BTD6 roundsets ==
For context, I made the call to list all of the old event-exclusive roundsets in the stats namespace instead of the main namespace, since it seemed like a better fit than the main namespace, and I think using the internal names as page names works better there than in the main namespace (since the internal names are all that we have). See [[Stats:Bloons TD 6/Roundsets]] for the list. However, that brings up the question about what to do for the other roundsets:
*I chose to put the endurance roundset in the stats namespace because it isn't tied to a specific mode, it's shared between Boss Rush, Mini Boss, and Phayze One, and the accelerated roundset was used in a quest and an Odyssey, so I put it there too. However, that brings up the question of what to do about the default roundset on [[List of rounds in BTD6]]. I don't think moving it to the stats namespace is bad for visibility since most people access that list page through redirects anyway. My main concern is that the list page also lists things like the "freeplay modifiers" and game hints; the former isn't part of the default roundset specifically, and the latter isn't really a stat. I should also note that I plan on making a separate page about "freeplay modifiers" (probably won't be titled that, but that is the official name, see [[Talk:Freeplay]] for my thoughts on that), so the modifier tables that are on the list page can go there instead. Even if we decide not to delete the list page, those should probably be moved to the freeplay modifiers page anyway, because they aren't specific to that roundset, but I'm still not sure what to do about the round hints. We could move those to a new page for round hints across the entire series, but I feel like including them on the same page as the rounds makes more sense. I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.
**'Course, if we do decide to move the default roundset to the stats namespace, that implies that we should do the same for every other BTD game's rounds in BTD4 and on. I'm not opposed to that, but maybe that feels unintuitive.
*I'm also not sure what to do about the ABR roundset. Technically, it is used outside of ABR, since it's also the roundset of [[Alternate CHIMPOPPABLE]], but that quest is presented as a combination of three modes, so even if it technically isn't ABR, it's still intuitive to the average reader to go to the ABR page to see what rounds are in that quest. I think fragmenting that information is unhelpful, even if for the sake of consistency. Theoretically, NK could make an event that uses the ABR roundset on a non-ABR mode, which would be enough to warrant separating the roundset to a different page in my opinion, but I don't want to make decisions based on something that might not ever happen.
*I think the legends roundsets can go in the stats namespace too. Personally, I'm not a fan of having to list every single Rogue Legends roundset in one page (especially since you have to collapse most of the tables to make the page more navigable, which I'm not a fan of since it interferes with CTRL+F searching), and I would prefer to have separate pages for them, especially now that there's a comparison mode of the rounds module that would be useful for showing the differences in the alternate roundsets. For the Frontier Legends roundsets, I feel the same way about the base roundsets.
**I think the FL rush roundsets and mechanics should go on its own mainspace page about Bloon Reinforcements instead. After all, the rush roundsets aren't used like normal roundsets, since the encounters pick out specific rounds to spawn instead of doing them in sequence, so giving those their own roundset pages just doesn't sit right with me. Treating them as normal roundsets would be like structuring the [[Sheriff (BTD6)]] page in the same way as Hero pages just because he technically is one. It'd also be more intuitive to describe the mechanics of reinforcements in a non-list page, since list pages aren't really supposed to be where we describe game mechanics, in my opinion.
*Right now, all of the quest-exclusive roundsets are only listed on the quest pages. Since most of them are only used once, and people are probably going to go to the page for a quest to find out what the rounds are instead of searching the database, I think these shouldn't get their own pages. Usually these roundsets are intertwined with the structure of the quest, so fragmenting that information just for the sake of consistency feels wrong. It feels like a similar situation to the ABR roundset. Alternatively, we could create a stats page that displays all of the quest-exclusive roundsets, but I'm not sure what the benefit of that would be. Again, since they're structured specifically for the quests, it probably isn't very useful to have them all in one place for comparison. Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe there's some use case I'm not seeing.
**Same goes for the boss roundsets. We could display all of them in one page in the stats namespace, but I don't know what purpose that would serve.
Other perspectives on this issue would be greatly appreciated. :sunglasses: [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 10:30, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
:To elaborate: I do think it would make sense to have separate pages listing game hints and "freeplay modifiers" across the entire BTD series ("List of game hints" and "List of round modifiers"?). The question is, if we have those, is there still value in having the [[List of rounds in BTD6]] page to list rounds and game hints in the same place. Either way, the round modifiers should probably be removed because they aren't specific to the default roundset, they apply to all roundsets. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 23:57, 8 June 2026 (UTC)
::Paging @[[User:Drgoku282|Drgoku282]], since he made the page for FL rounds, so maybe he feels some way about how to reorganize those. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 00:35, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:Ok since I was called here, these are my thoughts:
:* On the main topic, the issue I'm seeing across most the points above is the fragmentation of the information between things that would go the stats namespace and the main namespace, because it breaks the flow of information, specially on articles where the lack of the roundset would make the article feel incomplete which is the case for ABR and single-game Quests.
:* I have an idea to tackle this, but I'm not convinced that it is good enough:
:* First create a page for all roundsets in stats namespace, we should think about the article name for at least the "most common" roundsets, because I feel "EnduranceRoundSet" would feel weird for the user. These article should only have lede, the roundset list, income, list of events/modes or whatever uses that specific roundset, update history and navigation.
:** I would leave the game hints with the roundset they belong, just like the income, as I think moving them would fragment more the information.
:* Certain articles would be allowed to list rounds outside of the stats namespace for several reasons, for example:
:** Those that would feel incomplete without them (ABR, Quests, including Alternate CHIMPOPPABLE, which would just list ABR for consistency in this case), these should only get the roundset list and the income list.
:** In some the information can be presented in a better way, for example, in the [[Bloon Encounter (Rogue Legends)]] article, we could or could not present a collapsed table with the regular roundset, and then all the variants using the comparison thing and a hat leading to the complete set. Same thing for Bosses, have only the comparison from the main set and a hat.
:** Like we do with stats section for regular towers, we could use a hat to lead the user to more information in the stats namespace.
:** Frontier is a bit more tricky, but I think [[Bloon Encounter (Frontier Legends)]] already covers the mechanics, so no need to repeat them on the [[List of rounds in Frontier Legends]] article (or in the 6 articles after being divided). But the encounter article would need to have the list of roundsets more visible, I like the [[Bloons TD 6#Lists]] format for linking the 6 sets, and in this case we would consider the reinforcement sets like regular sets for the sake of moving them in the stats namespace, I feel doing something different would create more confusion instead of helping.
:** The links in the legends navigation could point to a category article if we create the sub-categories "Rogue Legends roundsets" and "Frontier Legends roundsets".
:* For the main BTD6 rounds article, I agree that the freeplay stuff should be moved to a different article because it is not excluisve to the main roundset. For the sake of completeness we could just leave a small "Past 140" section pointing to the freeplay article with the main hat and describing the bloon modifiers in general.
:* For the last points a "List of game hints" feels pointless for me, but maybe it would be interesting for some people to see the difference across generations, but I am not for or against it. For "List of round modifiers", isn't that what the [[Freeplay]] article is already trying to do?, I don't know enough about older generations if there are "round modifiers" that are not related to "freeplay", but if that isn't the case, we could just use the freeplay article and separate if the mechanics of some game become complex enough to [[Forum:Determine whether to split the Currency articles into separate pages based on game|split the article]].
:[[User:Drgoku282|Drgoku282]] ([[User talk:Drgoku282|talk]]) 06:54, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
== Creating an AI Policy ==
I think establishing one now is a good idea because I just feel like its a matter of time until some anonymous editor is going to fill in some stub article with 100% ai generated text. It can also potentially outline maybe some use cases for the technology to potentially might help to improve this wiki. 
* What should be allowed
** Checking spelling, formatting, automation tasks. Basically anything that isn't creating written content.
* What should not be allowed
** Generated content such as creating ledes, strategy guides, etc. Reason being LLMs are likely trained off the Fandom wiki which has conflicting license with this wiki. Also LLMs are likely out of date on new content and may provide inaccurate or outdated information depending on the subject.
I think going off [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Artificial_intelligence|Wikipedia's]] guidelines is the best framework to use. Any feedback is appreciated.
[[User:Overclockbtd|Overclockbtd]] ([[User talk:Overclockbtd|talk]]) 01:17, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:Makes sense to me. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 02:23, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:Good idea I say. I admit I used AI when writing up the data for some of the tables (mainly tedious calculations stuff, not making tables itself), but I will never use AI to write words (at least on bpedia). Yes, AI LLMs likely use Bwiki as its main source. Do make a "how to distinguish AI" sentence or two. [[User:Qwertyxp2000|Qwertyxp2000]] ([[User talk:Qwertyxp2000|talk]]) 03:00, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
::Btw, most AI dates up to 2023, when the boom of AI started. ChatGPT at least states that their original data originates from 2023, and any new data from then on is fed by employees, or something. [[User:Qwertyxp2000|Qwertyxp2000]] ([[User talk:Qwertyxp2000|talk]]) 04:43, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:{{y}} [[User:Lilysse|Lilysse]] ([[User talk:Lilysse|talk]]) 03:11, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:+1 on avoiding AI slop
:About strategy, most models now should be able to search the web, so they can generate some stuff about recent additions because they can read the script from content creators in youtube. So whatever they do on recent topics will be a bad version on whatever ISAB or Mehalic did on some video. [[User:Drgoku282|Drgoku282]] ([[User talk:Drgoku282|talk]]) 07:11, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
== Calculators? ==
[https://www.bloonswiki.com/index.php?title=ZOMG_(BTD6)&diff=prev&oldid=129651 This edit] reminded me that this wiki could really use some calculator tools to perform quick checks the reader can interact with, like checking the health of a MOAB on a specific round in this case, or other tools like the perpetually unfinished [[User:Planterror/Bloons Monkey City Schedule|BMC schedule page that I'm trying to fix]]. Does the wiki have the extensions in place to make such calculators? What would we need to start making these? [[User:Planterror|Planterror]] ([[User talk:Planterror|talk]]) 08:59, 27 June 2026 (UTC)
:I agree with adding calculator tools. I think it would be particularly useful for the Paragon page since we no longer need to link to external calculators. I don't have any technical expertise in this subject though [[User:Overclockbtd|Overclockbtd]] ([[User talk:Overclockbtd|talk]]) 17:52, 28 June 2026 (UTC)
:I've wanted to make a "Tool" namespace for things like this. Unfortunately, making calculators like on the runescape wiki requires coding in javascript, which sounds like torture. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 18:15, 28 June 2026 (UTC)
::Some people can manage making Javascript code. I made a calculator for paragons before back in bwiki, so a Tool namepspace might be useful for users who do know how to code. For me specifically, I know most of JavaScript if I can read their documentation and examples. [[User:Qwertyxp2000|Qwertyxp2000]] ([[User talk:Qwertyxp2000|talk]]) 22:27, 28 June 2026 (UTC)
:::I know how to write javascript, I just really hate it. [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 23:04, 28 June 2026 (UTC)
::After some thought, I'll probably just put them in the Blooncyclopedia namespace instead of making a whole new namespace that'll have less than 30 pages at most lol [[User:Polavux|Polavux]] ([[User talk:Polavux|talk]]) 05:50, 3 July 2026 (UTC)